Why Now is the Time to Get Started with VR (and What it Means for Marketers)
Why Now is the Time to Get Started with VR (and What it Means for Marketers)
VR is catching fire right now and the implications and opportunities are huge. But what does it mean for marketers and how do you get started? The transcript of our conversation is posted below.
Scott Ellis: On this episode of Technology Translated we're talking VR with Giovanni Gallucci. Why you should care about it, how to get started, and the implications for marketers. Alright, Giovanni, welcome back to Technology Translated and thank you for being here today.
Giovanni Gallucci: Thanks for having me, I appreciate it.
SE: I haven't seen you since what? Episode two or three? [chuckle]
GG: Yeah. I think it was '78.
SE: Yeah. [chuckle] We haven't been up that far yet. Thanks.
GG: In the heyday of disco. It's back when you had an afro. It was awesome.
S2: I thought you meant episode 78. [chuckle] We haven't quite gotten there yet, but I appreciate it, yeah. Yeah, the afro's long gone. As are the butterfly collars.
GG: Thank goodness.
SE: But that paints an interesting picture, and that's kind of what today's episode is really all about. We're gonna talk about virtual reality, what is virtual reality, some of the differences between that and some other technologies, and in particular, we're gonna put this into a context for marketers, so that they can get some ideas on why VR may or may not be relevant to them and some things that they can do about it. Okay. So right out of the gate, let's get something cleared up. There are a couple of technologies that are related. There is virtual reality, or VR, and there is augmented reality, or AR. How would you articulate the difference between those two?
GG: It's actually pretty simple. Virtual reality is all about having a user become immersed inside of a world, whether it's computer-generated, whether it is a game or some other kind of a CG content, or within a virtual kind of a spherical video, where their in real life reality is taken over by a video experience. Like watching a movie, but the movie is happening all the way around you. You're completely engulfed visually and audibly within that experience. And in some situations you can bring in smells, and we'll talk a little bit about that. You can bring in movement and things like that.
Augmented reality is a technology that overlays computer or other types of interactions on top of the real world. In some cases, we have that now, you have heads up displays in automobiles where you're looking at your windshield, on the windshield of the automobile you have information being put in front of your eyesight, that gives you information about the world around you. In some situations it can be data-driven like that. In other situations like the most kind of famous, kinda hot example right now is the Microsoft HoloLens, where what they're doing is they're taking the room or the world that you're in, and they're overlaying gaming pieces on top of that, that you interact with, that actually interact with the real world around you.
SE: Okay. And for anybody that has not seen or heard about HoloLens, we'll link up a couple of videos to it. Some of the stuff that they're promoting on that I think is maybe a little bit further ahead than where it really is right now. Is that fair to say?
GG: I don't know of anyone in Microsoft marketing that has ever marketed something that wasn't ready for the real world.
SE: I'm just gonna... [laughter]
GG: I have no idea what you're talking about, that Microsoft would be out demoing stuff that actually doesn't work in the real world.
SE: I think it is doing some very cool things, but some of the videos that I've seen were meant to be a conceptual example of where they're going with HoloLens and what they're doing with it. How's that?
GG: If you say so.
SE: Thanks. Thanks for the backup there. [chuckle] Okay. So that's the difference between VR and AR. And VR's been around for a really long time. So let's just very briefly, to cue this up, kinda talk about the evolution of VR. Why has it taken us so long to get to where we are now? And it seems like all of the sudden we're accelerating. What is the timeline moving forward to when we're gonna see this stuff actually finally become mainstream?
GG: I'll start at the end and move to the beginning. It's funny that we're talking about this right now, because to me, VR is in the mainstream now. And the reason why I tell you that, and that it's hit the mainstream now, is that yesterday I was going to the grocery store, and on the way to the grocery store I was listening to NPR. And NPR, they had a full on, eight-minute news piece about virtual reality. And if there is not any other definition of something hitting the mainstream and getting out to the masses, it's gonna be talk news shows like that, there's tons of implementations in the real world now. But VR is here. Everybody is aware of its existence. A lot of people have no clue what it actually is. They think it's very kinda space age, kinda futuristic. But I think that you would hard pressed to find anyone that's never heard of VR or virtual reality at this point.
You and I both have a contact who I would pretty much define as being somebody who is one of the grandfathers of virtual reality. And he would kick me in the groin if he heard me say that. But Lance Loesberg, over at BigLook360, this dude's been doing this stuff for 15-20 years, well before anybody else was really taking it seriously. And he was doing it back in the day of the Apple QuickTime VR stuff. And I'm sure that you remember, 'cause you and I are very old people, back in the day when you would go on to real estate websites and you would have this virtual reality tour of homes. We're talking about technology that's two decades old at this point.
The problem with it is that the creation of that content, the fact that it was so piecemealed together, and the fact that you had to have the exact right, perfect set of components on your computer to run it, really prevented VR from taking off. And I think a lot of it was just the cost to entry on both the producer and the consumer side, that really for a long time kept it from being more than what it was. And I think also back in those times, scrolling your mouse around an interface on the screen really wasn't the experience that all of us were dreaming of, like we have today with things like the Samsung Gear VR. This is nothing new by any means. Is it gonna hit the mainstream? I think we're already there now, it's just a small footprint, but I think that if you couldn't define it as being there now, this is the year that it happens.
SE: Yeah. It definitely feels like it's finally taking root and starting to get some traction. Look forward to seeing where that one goes in the next couple years. You touched on creating content and how that was one of the things that held VR up from going mainstream sooner. Let's talk a little bit about creating that content now. Why has it gotten easier? And what kinds of things do people need if they want to start doing some kind of VR?
GG: I don't wanna jump around kind of on the topics here. But the nice thing about in marketing virtual reality is that the entry point to creating content and having it up on the web is very inexpensive, and the learning curve, if you're fairly technically savvy with photo and video, is really easy at this point. The quality of that content has a lot to be desired, but the novelty of it and the fact that we're so early on into seeing all this different content, the novelty of it allows you to have a lotta leeway with not having the most beautiful cinematic, pristine content. Kind of like in the early days of when the GoPros first came out, everybody was buying a GoPro One and were putting them everywhere; you go back and look at that video now and it is horrendously bad. It's just terrible quality.
Same thing with YouTube. When YouTube was taking off, the videos were garbage, but it was the novelty of the website to have that content there, that was enough to project it into being what it is today. Gear wise on the beginner kind of inexpensive route, there's all kinds of opportunities that you can run out to Best Buy, to Amazon.com and buy stuff today. You've got the Kodak SP360. I think that comes in at about 400 bucks. It doesn't actually shoot 360, but it gives you the VR feel.
They have an upgraded camera called the SP360 4K, which is 4K. It's a higher quality camera at a couple hundred more bucks. 360fly camera is a neat one. It's got a neat kind of footprint design. The quality on that is probably one that I'm not really thrilled about now, but I'm hoping in the next couple of iterations, that's gonna get a lot better. You have the Ricoh Theta S, which is the one of all these sub-$1000 cameras, and actually sub-$500 cameras, the Ricoh Theta S from what I've used out in the field is by far, across the board, the easiest camera, the highest quality product that you can get out there today, if you're using it in full light. And all these cameras pretty much require kinda full daylight bright environments to give a good experience.
Those are the main three. There's a few other kinda outliers out there, and there's a lot of companies that are promising to deliver cameras over the next six or eight months, including Nikon, which I'm stoked to see what... We've seen what Nikon's 360 camera looks like. We don't know what the price is, we don't know when it's hitting the market. The Samsung Gear VR camera, that's supposed to actually come out within the next couple of months, so we're supposed to get a price on that. I'm excited to see what that's gonna be. The challenge with that one is, is it only gonna work on Gear VR setups, or are you gonna be able to put it on Facebook, and YouTube, and everywhere else? Those are kinda the beginner entry points.
Next level up is using a DSLR or a mirrorless camera, and sticking an 8mm or a 5mm fisheye lens on them. You can do those and do a 180-degree video, which is a really nice way to get into the technology without having to learn how to stitch video together. Or you can put two of those cameras back-to-back and then stitch the seams, which gets really hard very quickly. Or you can get into one of the ball mounts with a bunch of GoPros on it, with six or seven or 10 or 12 GoPro cameras on them. But then you're talking about if video is kind of a hard thing for you, shooting with one camera, you certainly don't wanna jump in and try to figure out a way to take seven cameras that are turned kind of cattywompus from each other diagonally, shooting all the same seven at the same time, and then pulling them into an editor and figuring how to stitch them all together. It's not for the faint of heart.
That's kinda the medium level, though. You're talking about getting a $1,500 to $2,000 camera, $1,000 lens, putting it on there, but you get gorgeous video out of that. It's light years ahead of what you're gonna get from a Ricoh Theta S, and then the step beyond that is just ridiculous, insane, $30,000, $100,000 cameras, and all that kinda stuff that's not even worth talking about, 'cause it's not a world I live in.
SE: G, I was pretty sure that you came from that world. I thought that was all the gear you had, is what you just listed off.
GG: I am on the periphery of that world. I work with a lot of people that work in that world, but I'm the guy that documents what they're doing. So I'm not using their stuff, I'm marketing what they make with that stuff.
SE: I got you. That's gonna be a a good segue. But before we get into some of the details on the marketing implications of VR, it sounds like there's a number of price points. So if somebody wants to get in at an entry level, it's not cost prohibitive any longer, but it is still some work to getting it done and doing something with a halfway decent quality. Is that fair?
GG: Yeah. And I'll tell you that the lowest price point that you could as a marketer, get into with a decent camera and produce video that you could be proud of and present to a client, whether it's a employer or whether you're an agency or a contractor producing content for a client, the setup that I would recommend for anybody right now would be the Ricoh Theta S and Final Cut Pro X. You get those two because... The beautiful thing about the Ricoh Theta S, that video, it comes out of the camera ready to be stitched, and there is a free app from Ricoh that will take your video from the camera, stitch it together in a 360 video without you touching a button. And it does it remarkably well. And then you take that video out of that application from Ricoh, and you put it into Final Cut Pro, and you edit it like any normal video.
The work flow on that, you have one extra step more than what you would have on a standard video. But then everything in Final Cut Pro works the same way: Titling works the same way, colouring video; if you wanna add effects for plug-ins, that all stuff comes through. It's just like working in a standard video. It's just that when you're working on your desktop it's stretched out really really long and thin as you're working with the content, and you have to kinda know that when you're doing this stuff that a title doesn't need to stretch all the way across the video 'cause then it'll wrap around the head of the viewer. You wanna stick it in one small space, and you'll do a little bit of testing and figure out what works for you. But that is cost wise and learning a new work flow wise, that is by far the easiest way to get into it. And like I said, I can't imagine how good that stuff's gonna look in one or two more generations of these cameras. It's gonna be like having a GoPro 4 in 360. And I think that we will see those cameras within a year.
SE: Yeah, and I would guess that those cameras are gonna follow a similar trajectory as digital cameras have in recent years where they might be little bit rough out of the gate but they can get the job done. They get better in lower light, all of those things will come along in the next couple of generations.
GG: Without question, because a lot of that ground work's already been laid out for these people now.
SE: Alright, so it's fairly easy to do. We have no excuse for not digging in and playing with VR. And now is the time because, quite frankly, as Gio said at the beginning of the show, right now we have that novelty factor, and there's a lot of forgiveness if the quality isn't necessarily as high. So it's a good time to experiment, it's a good time to learn, and by the time people get a little bit more picky, you'll be a whole lot better at it.
GG: And the technology will catch up, without question. And you're gonna have clients that are gonna go in and understand that they're gonna pay you kinda your standard rate to do this kinda neat, fun, kind of interesting thing. And then you have clients that have six-figure budgets. And there's not a whole lot of in the middle with that. This is a novelty thing where the clients will accept what you give them because they're so enthralled with the neatness of picking up their phone and moving their phone around and seeing the video move with them, there's really no... Like I said, you're doing this for your local real estate company, or travel company, or a restaurant, or whatever, or club or whatever, or you're moving into huge clients like a Samsung or like an Austin City Limits or Lollapalooza, and in those situations, you're talking about, five-camera shoots, a staff of 20 people, producer on site, and you're talking about, like I said, six-figure income, or a six-figure budget, or you're talking about a few thousand bucks for something neat locally.
SE: So, good time to transition. Let's talk a little bit about some of the implications for marketers. You've got a couple of interesting use cases that you've talked about before, might wanna touch on those. But really why should marketers care about VR now?
GG: And it's funny because it's like, all this stuff hitting the mainstream the way it is, and we saw a little bit of it last year, but this year VR is what action cameras were a few years ago, it's what drones were in the last couple of years. And it's almost like you look in the news and it's almost like people have forgotten about drones. It's all VR, VR, VR, VR now. From a marketing standpoint, with all the different examples that are out there, one of the biggest things that just blows people away, whether the content is absolutely gorgeous or not, is the fact that when you're experiencing it, even if you don't have a headset on, it feels immersive.
Because even if I'm holding up a Samsung phone or an iPhone, looking at a VR video through YouTube or through Facebook or something like that, people get... The fact that the expression on people's faces is priceless, and it's almost like I can't explain, I don't have a word for how to describe that sense of awe and that childlike kinda wonder of the magic that happens when someone takes a video, and no matter what they do with the phone, the phone is like a window into this world that they are peeking into. Now, you put the headset on, it's a whole different level. And you saw some of the video kinda testimonial case studies that I put together, where I've got people out in the middle of a crowd.
We put the headset and the headphones on them, and these were at live concerts where the band is 100 yards away from them. And we put the headset on, where the people are transported to the stage and they're on the stage with the band. And people completely lose their inhibitions. We had one woman that sat there, standing in the middle of this crowd of people wanting to see it for like 20 minutes, and we tried to take the headset off of her a couple of times, and she was like, "No, no, no, no. Don't take me... " And at one point, one of my favorite quotes is, "Don't take me off the stage."
And a quote like that tells you that psychologically she has positioned herself physically on the stage with the band. And we've got like 12 quotes like that, where people say things like, "Don't take me out of here." Not, "Don't take off the headsets," not, "Don't stop the video," "Don't make me leave this experience, or this environment that I'm in," and that's the goal, that immersive nature. And as a marketer, to be able to take somebody and transport them into a place like that, is something that marketers have been chasing after forever, for millenia. The immersive nature of the technology, obviously the impact that that has on people, because whenever, if you create the content correctly, people will remember whether it's a message, whether it's your brain being associated with somebody, whether you're marketing, whether you're in music or entertainment or something like that, and people are talking about what you've produced, the impact on that is much longer lasting.
And we've had situations where we're at music festivals, and we're doing this stuff, and we'll be at a two-weekend three-day each weekend, where the second weekend people come to us saying, "So-and-so told me about this, can I do it?" That's insane for a marketer to be able to have that kind of an impact where people are coming a week later and seeking you out because their friends told them about you. Obviously it's memorable, people hopefully, again, if you produce the content correctly, people are gonna remember what was happening during that experience so that your message is carried along with them. And then right now, and I tell you what, the train is leaving the station fast, but the novelty of this and the newness and the uniqueness and the fact that you can create something that lots and lots and lots of people have never experienced before, you can be the first one for lots people, you've got about a year, year-and-a-half to make that happen before these things are much...
'Cause when you're talking about a Samsung Gear VR, the headset's 99 bucks, and you've got everything else you need in your phone. And that experience, like the junkie little headphones that you get with your iPhones, audiophiles decry of what bad quality those are, those headphones are good enough for the vast majority of people that listen to music on their iPhone. The Samsung Gear at 99 bucks is going to be plenty good enough for the vast majority of people to experience this stuff, and you've got plenty of specials with carriers where someone goes and buys the Samsung phone, they're giving them the Gears for free. Of course they're rolling it into your contract over 47 years, but...
The access to this stuff is not a barrier anymore, and the stuff that's out there, and as some of these other companies start putting headsets out and we see what the price points are and the requirements are, I'll tell you right now, Samsung has absolutely nailed it. And it's not the best quality, but it is 90% of the way there for 10% of the cost, or less than 10% of the cost.
SE: Yeah, and this early in the game, that's huge.
GG: Critical. Absolutely critical. With Oculus finally releasing the headset and you looking at me... And I don't think people [chuckle] realize this with all the talk about the Oculus, there are less than 0.1% of the computers in the world can handle an Oculus right now. Not only you have to buy the headset, you've gotta go out and buy the desktop PC, and for heaven's sakes, the fact that the computer industry especially on the hardware side is still locked in to this model of using a desktop computer to power this stuff is beyond me. And again, that's where Samsung nailed it. You got a phone in your pocket, and that's where people like Samsung and Apple nail it with cameras. The camera on your phone is now better than most point-and-shoots. I think some estimates on getting into an Oculus and having the experience that you're supposed to have on a Oculus, if you have to buy a desktop that can do it, you're talking between $3,000 and $4,000 for the entire setup. Who has got that kinda money to be able to go out and buy a headset like that that currently has less than 100 games that work on it? It's nuts.
SE: Yeah, that's a pretty steep investment especially for something at this stage.
GG: And also because of the fact that I think that the way forward with VR, while gaming is gonna play an important part of that, almost every single industry, especially entertainment and music, and manufacturing, and healthcare, and auto... There's all kinds of companies out there, in their integration into the workforce and their products are gonna be able to use VR. So it's like we think of VR as being gaming, and that's gonna be a very small amount of what everybody is using VR for all the time, within say 10 years.
SE: Yeah, and gaming is usually one of those industries that's on the cutting edge of things like this, so it's I think normal that people would gravitate towards thinking about it in that context, but there are certainly a number of applications well beyond that and things that we're not even dreaming of yet that people are gonna come up with for VR.
GG: Absolutely, and that they already have.
SE: And for me the big takeaway, what I hope everybody listening to this who's a marketer was taking away from that is, as marketers, the number one resource that we want, the thing that we are going after the most is people's attention. And going back to your example of the things that people were saying as they were engaged in sitting on the stage virtually with the band and saying, "Don't take me outta here, don't take me off the stage," when somebody is in that world you have 100% of their attention during that time.
GG: Absolutely. And like with BigLook VR, they take their setup out to live sporting events like basketball games and stuff like that, and they put cameras on either side of the court, and then they have people walk through the audience with the VR headsets to give people a perspective of what it's like to be on the court. And it's the same thing, you've got people who have paid a ticket to go to the arena to watch the game live, and they get transformed into this virtual reality, and they don't wanna give up the headset. Those guys at BigLook, these guys have being doing this for well over a decade. You look at their website and they've got stuff back to the mid 90s that they've been producing VR content.
It was ugly back then but the stuff they're doing... He does stuff where he does tours of cars and stuff, and that's why when I kinda look at all the stuff that's in the news and then I look at folks that are doing the production work like those guys, and there's a bunch of really big name production companies out there too, the vast majority of the production work are things for non-profits. The New York Times, they sent out a million cardboard headsets one Sunday, and they've got a team now that produces news stories in virtual reality now.
And it's amazing. One of the biggest pieces they had that got most of the press was a piece where they actually took you through what it's like to be a Syrian refugee, and they put a VR camera in the refugee camp on the middle of a road walking, trying to find a way to the border, trying to stand in line for food. One experience is this kid who left Syria to get away from the war, and then when they came back a year later, their entire neighborhood is completely destroyed. For the news, especially for that kind of journalism, trying to get the readers or the content consumers feel empathy for the subject matter and to get lost in the content, holy cow! That's an amazing way to do it.
SE: Yeah, it's a phenomenal way to immerse people in that experience.
GG: And so the New York Times has got lots of news stories up now that are shot in VR. They give you a whole different, obviously, no pun intended, different perspective on learning about what's happening in the world around you.
SE: Alright, guys, it is time to start thinking about VR, it is time to start playing with VR. For people that want to learn a little bit more, do you have any recommendations on resources, places that people should be looking into that can help them at least get off the ground and get running?
GG: I've got four websites that are my Mashable and TechCrunches. [chuckle] You've got news websites that you go to every single day to see what's happening in the world. The four ones that I go to in the VR space, there's a website called roadtovr.com. There's one called uploadvr.com. There's vrscout.com. So those are... All three of those are basically reviews in what's happening in the world of virtual reality. Half of it's gaming news but they cover everything in the VR space. The YouTube of virtual reality is a website called Vrideo, V-R-I-D-E-O.com, that's where you're gonna find most of the new upcoming content, see how people are producing content for VR. Think of it as early days YouTube. There's a lot of garbage up there, but there's also a lot of cool content. And along those lines, YouTube has a VR showcase also. If you go to YouTube and just search for VR video or 360 video, they've got a channel where they curate a lot of stuff. And I'm not sure why. I don't think they have a friendly URL to it except this crazy long concatenated list of 20 characters after the URL.
And the Road to VR, Upload, the VR Scout, you can kinda learn a little bit about that. There's not a whole lot of tutorials. On these inexpensive entry level cameras, there's not a ton to learn about. If you're gonna get into the stitching and you're gonna get into the GoPro setups where I think marketers at the next level up that really wanna dive into is gonna get there the, without question, absolute best place to go to to start and learn about stitching footage together to make that spherical image, the website's called Wistia, W-I-S-T-I-A.com, and if you go there, just search for "how to stitch GoPro footage."
And they have a blog post that takes you from the very start to the very finish. They talk about hardware, they talk about the software you need. And for the software, there's two main players outside of Final Cut Pro that are 360 video editors you need to jump onboard with. They're both about a thousand bucks each. So you pick one or the other. They're both equally good, almost. But those guys will tell... And their experience at Wistia was, "Never done it before, this has been our experience." And the video they produce at the end is a beautiful, really well-stitched together video.
So that's a great place to go to, but I'll send you these links so you can stick 'em in the show notes but those are the places I go to. And then any place that you get your regular news from like a Mashable or like a TechCrunch or VentureBeat, whatever, what I have in my bookmark bars, I just do a search for "virtual reality", and that search page comes up, I save that to my book bar, so I've just got a place to look for VR content every morning to see what the main news sites are talking about also.
SE: Okay. I appreciate that, Gio. That's a wealth of places to go look for information, and we will definitely link all of that stuff up in the show notes. FYI for the audience and for you, Gio, one of the things I'm experimenting with, this isn't VR, but during the recording of the podcast I'm actually live on Periscope and having people ask questions if they have any VR questions or whatever the topic of the day may happen to be. This is a little experiment for me. I've got one question that came in from Mike in Toronto, and he wanted to know if you see the use for VR in marketing for things like e-commerce stores.
GG: The challenge with that is that kinda moving into a touchscreen kind of environment. Now, that exists in a hybrid solution. So you can go into some malls and they're very sparse, you'd have to go on the net and find out where they are, but you certainly can go into a store and, especially with women's fashion, and select the kind of dress that you like or a blouse or pants or whatever, go over to a big LCD screen that's got a camera on it, scan the tag on that dress, and that screen will then show you what you will look like in that piece of clothing. That's more augmented reality than virtual reality. Certainly, someone smarter than me is gonna come up with some way to implement it.
Those types of solutions though, when you've gotta sit back and think about, "Okay, e-commerce, how do I fit VR into that?" certainly, there's gonna be solutions for that later on. However, there are so many other ways to use VR that is just naturally compelling, that naturally fit together, but you're not gonna hear a whole lot about that. And honestly, the world that I live in is music and television, movies and stuff like that, so all my content, or all my thought process, is kinda focused on producing live video versions of VR and 360 video and stuff like that. Like I said, I guarantee you that somebody somewhere is gonna come up with a way to integrate a live shopping experience from your home with a VR experience so that you can do the same thing you can do in the mall, you can do that at your house as well, I would assume.
SE: Yeah, I can almost already picture, especially some of the higher end boutique type stores, enabling you to come in and through virtual reality, walk through the store, find things you like, maybe put them on hold, in near real time without ever leaving your home. We're stretching it but that would be certainly an interesting and fun use for it.
GG: And the implementation is, I send them a picture of my face and I give them a front and left and right profile of my face. I send them my measurements, and they build me out on their website, and you start clicking through clothing. And as you click through clothing, if I've sent them my real body proportions, then they should be able to create a model that looks remarkably close to me and to show me what these clothes will look like and to size me properly in the whole bid. So I think that there is use cases that make that make sense. The issue is bringing all that stuff together in that real time CG modelling of a person's body type so that you get it accurate, because initially you're gonna have some people that are probably gonna fib on their measurements [chuckle] and not be happy with the results.
SE: I don't know anybody that would do such a thing. No.
GG: I would not. I know that the VR-me is a lot healthier than the real me. I'll take that right now.
SE: You and me both, bother.
GG: And he is smoking hot.
SE: Alright. And sitting on the beach somewhere, I'm [31:12] ____.
GG: Absolutely. Absolutely.
SE: All right, well, Gio, thank you very much. This was a phenomenal brain-dump on VR. I think it's a great introduction for anybody that's exploring it but is just trying to figure out where to get started or where to learn a little bit more. Really appreciate your time today. If people want to connect with you to see the stuff that you are doing, where's the best place for them to do that?
GG: My website is gallucci.net, G-A-L-L-U-C-C-I.net or you can just follow my high jinks on Twitter @giovanni.
SE: All right, and as always, I am @vsellis everywhere on the web, including Periscope, except not on Snapchat. That's vsellis1 so if you happen to be tuning in there. As always, if you have any questions, you can ask them on Facebook, on Twitter, on wherever you want. Just make sure you use the hashtag asktechtrans, and we will do our best to get your questions answered on the show, and we will talk to you guys next week.